.NET, Microsofts cure for low blood pressure.

[Pilgrim]

Every time I go to the MS Update site I am informed that I have important updates hidden, in total there are about 10 of them.
Most of them are general in nature, relating to things that are not relevant to my computer.
Two of them are connected to .NET, one is KB963707, the other, quite recent, is KB2416473, the second one is also showing up as missing in Belarc Advisor, but not the first.
If you run a search on these you will find large numbers of people who have the same problem as I do, they simply will not install.
There have been a number of others that would not install over the last couple of years all related to .NET as well.

If you try to install them from the website or through Automatic Updates you will be informed that the update has failed.
If you download the update and try to install it manually, even in Safe Mode, you will be told that you do not have the software installed which requires that update.
There is a third option where when you are using the website you are informed that the update has installed successfully only to have the same update offered to you for ever more unless you do as I do and hide it.
Regarding the second update I mentioned I have been informed 4 times in the last few days that it has installed but if I unhide it I keep getting offered it over and over again.

In the last two years I have completely uninstalled and reinstalled the .NET Framework three times, if you have ever done this you will know it is not a quick job, and if you download each time the overall size of the files is considerable.

A complete reinstall seems to be Microsoft's only answer to the problem and for a while it usually works, then a few months later they bring out a new update and you have the same problem all over again.

Microsoft have been aware of these problems for years and yet from some of the responses I have read from them they do not seem particularly interested in solving them.

.NET is still in development, when I checked before I started writing this I have five versions installed, I did have six but the earliest one disappeared at the last reinstall.
I have different pieces of software that need at least three of those versions, I probably have software that relies on the other two as well.
If that was not the case I would remove the whole lot.

There is only one other single thing that I can think of that has caused me anywhere near so much grief in relation to computers and that was Norton/Symantec.

Earlier today in connection with another thread, I started up VirtualBox and ran Ubuntu 10.04, when I was using it there was a moment when I was almost tempted to uninstall Windows and install Ubuntu to the hard drive.

As I have said elsewhere it is doubtful that I will ever build or buy another computer but if I do the chances that it will have Ubuntu rather than Windows installed is growing by the day.

[safeguy]

.NET? You either stick to the latest version or you stick with the prior version...

Always try finding the offline version direct download link, install and then forget it. If an app ask you for it, even after you have it installed, then it's probably looking for the 'other' version...and you've got 2 options...install that or dump the app. I chose the 2nd option most of the time and find an alternative app that doesn't depend on .NET or one that works with the .NET version I have.

Norton/Symantec? If you have issues with it, then don't use it. As simple as that...unless it involves some $$$ coming out of your pockets.

If Ubuntu is your escapade from Windows and you're fine with it, then go for it. But if you ask me, there's always some issues that you've got to deal with when you're using a computer...be it with any OS. It's up to you to find one that keeps your blood pressure at healthy levels..

[Pilgrim]

.NET? You either stick to the latest version or you stick with the prior version...

Always try finding the offline version direct download link, install and then forget it. If an app ask you for it, even after you have it installed, then it's probably looking for the 'other' version...and you've got 2 options...install that or dump the app. I chose the 2nd option most of the time and find an alternative app that doesn't depend on .NET or one that works with the .NET version I have.

Norton/Symantec? If you have issues with it, then don't use it. As simple as that...unless it involves some $$$ coming out of your pockets.

If Ubuntu is your escapade from Windows and you're fine with it, then go for it. But if you ask me, there's always some issues that you've got to deal with when you're using a computer...be it with any OS. It's up to you to find one that keeps your blood pressure at healthy levels..

Sticking to one version is not an option when different programs require different versions.

If you reread my original post you will see that in the cases I refer to downloading the update and trying to install it manually does not work either.

The same applies to other apps as your comment about Norton/Symantec, some of them cost money.

Regarding Norton/Symantec, the problem in my case, and for many others, was when there was a trial version on a new PC.
I was never interested in using it, I just wanted to get rid of it.
After it had locked my system solid and even the manufacturers support team could not think of a way into it, it took a complete reinstall, which wiped out my recovery partition, and the use of the Norton Removal Tool plus scans of the hard drive and registry, in spite of this I was still finding stray registry keys 9 months later.
The computer was my first, at which time I knew nothing about them, with what I have learned since I would not have the same problems, plus the Removal Tool has been greatly improved.

I have been watching Ubuntu for the last 4 years and it has become much more user friendly.
It is now possible to buy a computer with it installed instead of Windows.

Yes, there are always problems with computers, the point of my original post was that with a program as widely used as .NET and a company as large as MS these problems should not keep occurring.

[johnshaw1917]

Up until the last so called "critical update" for .NET, I have never experienced any trouble with updates. But now, for some reason, the last security update screws up my LAN network connection on XP, so that it takes over 5 minutes for it to load, when I reboot. Fortunately, the update is just for security and it doens't effect any software I have installed.

[JayCub]

I will install XP Pro SP3 shortly and see if i experience any problems with .Net, as of now i have no complaints,
When was the last security update that caused the problem, John do you recall as it's at least three weeks since i last run XP, curiosity, as my installs are Nlited the events may be different.

[johnshaw1917]

I will install XP Pro SP3 shortly and see if i experience any problems with .Net, as of now i have no complaints,
When was the last security update that caused the problem, John do you recall as it's at least three weeks since i last run XP, curiosity, as my installs are Nlited the events may be different.

Hi Jay,

Anyone of these 4 updates will cause the problem, beginning with the last one listed, which is dated August 10, 2010.

Security Update for Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1 on Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP x86 (KB2418241)
Download size: 0 KB , 0 minutes (Downloaded; ready to install)
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to compromise your Windows-based system that is running the Microsoft .NET Framework and gain access to information. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Details...

Security Update for Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 on Windows XP, Windows Server 2003, Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008 x86 (KB2416473)

Download size: 0 KB , 0 minutes (Downloaded; ready to install)
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to compromise your Windows-based system that is running the Microsoft .NET Framework and gain access to information. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Details...


Security Update for Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 SP1 on Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows Server 2008 x86 (KB2416447)

Download size: 0 KB , 0 minutes (Downloaded; ready to install)
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to compromise your Windows-based system that is running the Microsoft .NET Framework and gain access to information. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Details...


Security Update for .NET Framework 2.0 SP2 and 3.5 SP1 on Windows Server 2003 and Windows XP x86 (KB983583)

Download size: 0 KB , 0 minutes (Downloaded; ready to install)
A security issue has been identified that could allow an attacker to compromise your Windows-based system that is running the Microsoft .NET Framework and gain complete control over it. You can help protect your computer by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer. Details...

[hellnoire]

I've been coding in C#.NET for about a year now, and Pilgrim raises some good points I'll like to elaborate for those who haven't seen the other side of the coin, the nightmare it can be to program in C#.NET (and why I'm EXTREMELY happy I'm learning Java this year.)

Firstly, the one everyone knows I'll bring up because of my background, but I need to say it anyway: Cross platform compatibility. If you think Mono is good enough for .NET under Linux or Mac, I've got to hand it to you... you're not a coder. Nor are you the one dealing with the nightmare that Mono now opens up. In C#.NET, you can set paths, but even with Wine, it's not assured it will be be there on Wine. Chances are good, it will be... but let's be realistic: it's not assured.

Then we have the platform problems itself if we exclude the OS, we look at .NET itself. Visual Studio lets you work only so far back in terms of .NET framework, and while each new upgrade to the framework adds more like each Java update, you're also looking at a lot of code that you have to re-write if you want to support an older version. And god help you if you want to use version 4 or version 3.5.... hell, with some people, it's hard enough to get them to use .NET to begin with.

Which brings me to my next point: portability. Java's guilty for this too, but consider how many more people have Java then .NET... A simple 60 mb download compared to a 250 mb behemoth? On limited connection, even I could see how many people could use Java more so then .NET. And god help you if you try running a .NET app on something that has no connectivity. (PS: I know there are ways to make your .NET apps portable, however, you ARE cheating at getting it working, as it will include the dlls it needs in your package size, thus increasing it's size.)

Last thing I want to point out for those debating if you should go .NET or Java: consider your resources. Not in terms of computers, but in how-to guides. I can figure out how to write in Java much easier because of the great documentation online and in textbooks... none of it's going out of date anytime soon, .NET on the other hand....

[Pilgrim]

Up until the last so called "critical update" for .NET, I have never experienced any trouble with updates. But now, for some reason, the last security update screws up my LAN network connection on XP, so that it takes over 5 minutes for it to load, when I reboot. Fortunately, the update is just for security and it doesn't effect any software I have installed.

John,

In the details on one of those updates it said that it would disable and then re-enable network connections.

If you are still having problems have a look at THIS, I used it and was amazed at the results.

Jay,

There are no doubt a lot of people who have had no trouble with these type of updates but you only have to run a search to see that there are posts on forums all over the internet, some of them going back several years, all with the same problem, .NET updates that simply will not install.
Even following Microsoft's advice to do a complete reinstall, the first of the two updates that I specifically mentioned refuses to do so.

As I have stated several times elsewhere besides my PC I also have a Netbook which I bought last year, they both run XP-SP3.
Since I got the Netbook I have installed the same updates without any trouble.
I have often wondered, with this and with other issues, if it is because the Netbook was installed with SP3 from new while the PC was updated from SP2.

Paul,

I know nothing about programming, to me it might as well be a black art and while I was writing as a user I have every sympathy for developers who use .NET.


But the point I was making was about ordinary users, people who basically buy a computer and expect it to work.
While a great many developers have used .NET, from a users point of view it is part of the Windows OS, if that was not the case and it was simply a part of a program from another developer most users would have dumped it years ago.

This problem with .NET updates has been going on for years and even following Microsoft's suggestion of a complete reinstall, after first using removal tools and Windows Installer Cleanup utility, it frequently does not solve the problem.

My view is that with the development resources they have at hand, if they had wanted to, Microsoft could have solved these issues long ago, but the don't seem to be interested, or to care.
Instead of bringing out new versions they should put some effort into resolving the outstanding issues with existing ones.

When Microsoft bring out an update which they say is of the utmost importance they should make sure that it is possible for everyone to install, that is not happening now and with these issues it has not happened in the past.

When you download an update that Automatic Updates or the Microsoft Update website tells you is essential for your system and then on trying to install it manually you get told that you do not have any software that requires that update, there is something fundamentally wrong!

These updates are listed as security updates, let me offer an analogy:

If you were to buy a car or a piece of electrical equipment and a fault was discovered that endangered the equipment or your use of it, if enough people were affected the product would be recalled, but more to the point it would not be the owner who was expected to make the repair.

There are definitely enough people involved in this case but if your computer does get taken over, if all your personal details are accessed and your identity gets stolen does Microsoft want to know, does it hell.

In spite of how it may seem I am not 'worked up' about this issue, I am actually quite calm.
I am just totally fed up with the lack of support from a company that has a huge market share and when a problem develops with its products leaves the user to sort it out.

[johnshaw1917]

Thanks Pilgrim. I hadn't about trying a internet optimization program, but will give it a try.

[JayCub]

Thank you for the information Pilgrim, my XP Pro has SP3 and not slipstreamed, and as you mentioned the netbook doesn't have the problems with .Net and SP3, maybe investigating SP2 as the cause, It's a software problem, the upside for me is a large capacity hard disk and fast broadband and haven't considered .Net the way Paul has, tried it but i would need alot of help and no-one i know works with .Net,
because i install alot of programs and test them out, it benifits me to keep it uptodate,